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A new way to measure poverty shows the US falling behind Europe

Posted by _DeadFred_ |3 hours ago |69 comments

Aurornis an hour ago[2 more]

The new measure:

> As of 2025, the time needed to earn $1 is 63 minutes in the US.

Confused, I clicked one of the links and tried to understand. Found this:

> The time to get $1 refers to a day of life for anyone at any age and in any circumstance, not just the hours worked by someone with a job.

Clicking another link took me to the abstract at https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4785458 but that didn't answer any questions either.

I can't find anything really of substance in this, other than someone trying to redefine a lot of terms in confusing ways

$1 every 63 minutes would be $8343/year. I cannot think of any way to reconcile that with the US average household income or any other related figure.

bee_rider 2 hours ago[1 more]

I’m as frustrated as anybody else with how the economy is going in the US. But we should be skeptical about a new metric with an intuitive name that seems to confirm exactly what we all suspect but is sort of complex to interpret/measure, right?

In particular it seems weird that only we had a massive change during COVID.

Also seems a little odd that Germany was always better than the US, even in the 90’s when things were pretty good here.

Putting it together, we need to have COVID all the time here, so we can match the economic development of Germany immediately post-reunification.

Balinares 27 minutes ago

Interesting. I hope this catches on -- it's tough to visualize poverty in concrete terms, but assessing how long it takes a population to make a given unit of purchasing power in average is a clever idea. It's sobering to realize that it would take a friend across the sea over 100 hours to assemble the funds for a $100 bill that I wouldn't look at twice...

Although I wish this sparked a conversation on how we can do better instead of national dick measuring contests. Those don't help.

FeloniousHam 18 minutes ago

This sounds like so much Eurocope: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/eurocope

laurencerowe an hour ago[2 more]

Average != median. This measure seems to be so high because there are so many low paid workers in the US due to low minimum wage.

Median workers in the US have some of the highest hourly wages at PPP in the rich world and they have been increasing, but they are pretty similar to those in Germany. The big difference in annual pay at PPP is down to hours worked.

For 2022 average annual hours worked per worker in the US is 1790 while in Germany it is 1340 [1]. Meanwhile average hourly wages at PPP in US are $34.9 vs $34.6 in Germany [2]

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-working-hours-per-...

[2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-hourly-earnings

an hour ago

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codethief 2 hours ago[3 more]

> The $1 is measured in international dollars. This means it buys the same amount of goods and services in any country as a US dollar does in the United States. It is often used alongside purchasing power parity (PPP) data. The “time” refers to a day of life for anyone, at any age and in any circumstance — not just the hours worked by someone with a job.

So IIUC this "average poverty" (measured in time per international dollar) includes people living off social welfare? Otherwise, if it only included the working population, wouldn't we have

  average poverty ≝ (average yearly income* of the working population / 1yr)⁻¹
and so it should be inversely proportional to the average yearly income* metric mentioned in the article?

*) Adjusted for purchasing power, i.e. measured in international dollars.

abighamb 2 hours ago[1 more]

This metric makes a lot of intuitive sense and reflects the consumer sentiment I hear from neighbors. "Working more for less" isn't a new complaint, but something that measures that is interesting.

I would be very interested to find out how those stats are related to things like, GINI or old pre-GDP economic measures of raw production.

WarmWash 2 hours ago[1 more]

I would guess this is because places like Germany having incredibly low annual working hours.[1] The bottom of the list is populated by all European countries.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

_the_inflator an hour ago

Don’t fall for it, this is payed I guess by one of the countless NGOs that serve the official agenda of leftist politicians.

Germany’s economy is the worst in Europe since a couple of years.

Industrial complex vanish faster than a glassy menu opens on the MacBook Pro series.

Bankruptcy is on an all time high, car makers opening new factories in Hungary and close theirs no matter how modern they are in Germany.

A pharmacist in Germany begged me to pay with fiat money and not to use Apple Pay nor credit card due to the percentage hit on the invoice - and I bought stuff for roughly 350EUR.

Roads look like 1990 in the German Democratic Republic.

All that politicians from the Left discuss is higher taxes, higher medical costs higher everything even state debt while service declines and investment disappears.

It is dire here. Don’t fall for it, because it is only getting worse.

The youth wants to leave Germany with at a percentage rate never seen before: between 20 and 25%.

And the net balance is already negative for 3 years if I remember correctly for people moving here and people leaving - and these are folks from Germany and people who’s parents immigrated here generations ago.

So called “Knives Prohibition Zones” installed in the last years shall account for the massive increase in knife attacks in the public zones.

Christmas markets don’t open as well as many traditional public meet ups closed due to anti terrorist and safety measures they have to pay for - an unheard and unseen phenomenon 10 years ago.

I could go on and on - but yeah, Europe is great and such, so cool, that more and more former colleagues who lived here 10 years and more happily leave the country for good.

ktoyame 2 hours ago[5 more]

it feels counterintuitive to me that US "average poverty" dropped more than 50 percent in covid, while european stayed absolutely untouched.

j_french 2 hours ago

Sterck's article from The Conversation referenced in this article: https://theconversation.com/measuring-poverty-on-a-spectrum-...

heathrow83829 an hour ago[1 more]

the article doesn't explain how the math works. if min wage is 15$ an hour or 10$, how do they arrive at 1$ for 63 min???

joe_the_user an hour ago[1 more]

He finds that “average poverty is substantially higher in the US, even though average incomes are higher than in most Western European countries”.

That seems like a complicated way to "talk about median income without talking about median income". By the end, they do describe the basic situation: US has greater total wealth and total income but that wealth and income is so unequally distributed that more people are poor.

wilg 2 hours ago[1 more]

charcircuit an hour ago

It seems biased to ignore things like growth in housing prices and the stock market where we have seen some massive gains in recent years. If it's easy to invest in property or companies or bonds or treasuries or whatever to make a dollar. That should count.

AnimalMuppet 2 hours ago[3 more]

OK, the idea is interesting, but the numbers seem completely bogus. In what world does it take the average American 63 minutes to earn $1, even one "international" dollar?

I get the "international" part - purchasing power. The number still seems way off, though.

In a time when minimum wage is $7/hr, how is the average American earning $1/hr?

Can anyone make that number make any sense?

IshKebab 2 hours ago

This seems like a quite nice way to measure poverty.

casey2 2 hours ago

This metric rates very high on my private index Compensation, Obscuring, Paltry, Earnings (COPE)

nmbrskeptix 2 hours ago

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some_random 2 hours ago[2 more]

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josefritzishere 37 minutes ago

The declining standard of living in the USA is has become painfully obvious. I think we're past solutions. The question is if it will go the way of Italy or the way of Yugoslavia.

PaulKeeble an hour ago

Is the measure they are using inflation adjusted over time? If not this shows an enormous loss in purchasing capacity over time for the average person, which is certainly how its felt over the past decades as inflation has outrun wages for most people.